Interview with József Kajdi – Episode 10

Moving further on in the story, I still need to touch upon a few topics, although I do not wish to go into them in great detail now. Interestingly enough, at least in the public eye, one of the things that received backlash was the government’s conduct concerning the World Expo, despite our best intentions. The Vienna and Budapest 1995 World Exhibition was its official name. It was originally announced by the government before the change of regime.

The former mayor of the capital, Mr. Bielek even received recognition and an award for his idea. I must say that even in retrospect, the idea itself seemed brilliant and was indeed a good one. However, as I mentioned, compared to 1989, the economic conditions that would have been ideal for hosting a world exhibition had changed considerably.

For this reason, the Antall government decided relatively quickly—this was also a topic that was regularly on the agenda of almost every government meeting from the very beginning—that okay, this event should be held and organized, but on an entrepreneurial basis. There weren’t really any budgetary resources for this. After lengthy calculations and discussions, the Antall government decided that it could allocate a maximum of 30 billion Forints for this, while even the most cautious estimates put the cost of organizing such an event at around 220 billion, based on the values at the time.

So all the rest would have to be financed either through some kind of loan or on a commercial basis that would somehow make this idea accessible and feasible. This 30 billion would have been used primarily to carry out all the infrastructure investments that the country and the capital city needed anyway, and it had to be done from this 30 billion if possible. In addition, the idea was that, even though Budapest is one of the centers of this world exhibition, we would try to involve the rest of the country as well and allocate development funds to these areas.

The fact that Fidesz and SZDSZ were almost immediately opposed to hosting the world exhibition caused considerable difficulties. As a result, the municipal government of the capital, which was dominated by SZDSZ district mayors, did not really support this idea, and there were even several municipal council decisions and resolutions stating that Budapest did not wish to participate in the event. And these resolutions even called on the government not to undertake the event at the expense of Budapest, i.e. not to give a positive response to the event. While public opinion in 1989-90 did not necessarily support the world exhibition, by 1991, interestingly, the general opinion was that Hungary should host the exhibition in 1995, as it would clearly serve the country’s development. Business circles were particularly in favor of hosting the exhibition, and an alternative solution was proposed, namely that the country’s economic situation might not be suitable for hosting the exhibition in 1995, so it should be postponed until 1996. And it could be linked to the millennium, previously celebrated in 1896, the 1000th anniversary of the Hungarian people entering the Carpathian Basin in 896, so there is a parallel, 1996 being an important landmark date for both events, so essentially the three big events could be linked this way.

After Vienna made it clear that it was not willing to postpone because the Olympics were also taking place in 1996, it insisted on going ahead, even if it meant organizing the event alone in 1995, so the 1996 idea was taken off the agenda, and then later, as is well known, the world exhibition itself was completely dropped from the agenda, so in the end, the Antall government, under pressure from circumstances, was forced to decide that it could not organize it after all. Another very neuralgic issue that was discussed at almost every government meeting was the question of the Bős-Nagymaros hydroelectric plant and water pipeline.

The Antall government inherited this from the previous administration, since the problem of resolving this issue did not begin during our term, but much earlier. There was an intergovernmental agreement between the two countries, against which the green movement organized a very serious demonstration back in 1989, and the Antall government inherited this public sentiment, from which there is really no way out, if only because I remember that anyone you asked in the Antall government who was an environmental expert said that if it were built, the Gapcsikovo power plant (the Slovak portion of the plant) would cause an environmental disaster in the upper reaches of the Danube, as well as water management problems from a shipping perspective that would be impossible to remedy. And for this reason, the National Assembly essentially passed a government proposal to terminate the agreement between the two countries, various negotiations began, and the issue was even taken to the International Court, after the Slovaks refused to halt construction, and there was even a moment when they diverted the Danube itself. This again falls at a time when international public opinion and the international community were much more preoccupied with other serious problems and conflicts than with this, and were unwilling to deal with it, and refused to resolve it, even though Hungary is clearly in the right from an international legal point of view and from every other point of view.

But somehow, international political power, whether we are talking about the EU or any other world power, felt that there was no need to create another conflict, that there were enough of them in the world already, and so they were trying to cool this conflict down. So we were essentially left on our own, trying to take up this fight, with little success. So, having mentioned how effective the Antall government was in terms of foreign policy, there were events and developments in which it simply could not be successful, objectively speaking.

Finally, if you have any further questions, I will be happy to answer them, but I would also like to give a summary, focusing mainly on the last period of the Antall government, although I must add that the late prime minister, as is well known, ultimately gave up his fight against death, at least his body did, as he developed lung inflammation on top of the lymph node cancer, followed by leukemia, and on December 12, 1993, he gave up the fight and died, and on December 21, 1993, the Boross government was formed, as József Antall left a political will in the event of his death, which he wrote before his surgery in Cologne, dated October 5, 1993.

The letter was dated October 5, and the envelope was marked “to be opened in the event of my death.” It was read on the evening of his death, at an extraordinary government meeting held that evening, attended by the president of the republic, and the speaker of the national assembly, Uncle Gyuri Szabad. The letter clearly states that he asks all coalition representatives and all members of the government to accept Péter Boross as prime minister, as his successor. I must say that this caused some conflict within the MDF, because there were, of course, self-nominated candidates, as the death of József Antall had given rise to such ambitions in Lajos Für, and Iván Szabó. However, after such a request was made in writing, and given that József Antall had a reputation within the faction and in the eyes of the public, Péter Boross was ultimately elected, and the Boross government was formed with only one change: Péter Boross became prime minister, and his previous position was filled by Imre Kónya, the leader of the MDF faction, who took his place in the velvet chair of the Minister of Interior, and this government saw out the rest of the cycle, until July 14, 1994, when the Horn government took over the executive.

In this regard, I must note that Hungary is the only country in Central and Eastern Europe during this period that was able to complete a parliamentary cycle among the former socialist countries, while all other countries saw changes of government or parliamentary elections midterm. Hungary is therefore the only stable country where this cycle essentially continued, even if there was a change in head of government. Even though the Boross government was essentially a caretaker government that carried the administration until the elections.

I would like to say clearly that I view the Antall government, as I did at the very beginning when clarifying the concepts, or at least as I tried to interpret the concepts of regime change and regime changing, that the Antal government did bring about regime changing. It carried out the changing of the public law system, as I mentioned, starting with the Local Government Law, and I could have mentioned the establishment of the Hungarian National Bank as an independent institution, but there were also several other important steps that completed the change of the public law system, and it also carried out the most difficult task left to us by the previous system, namely the changing of the economic system, which of course involved tremendous difficulties, suffering and many negative aspects, but these were objective negatives, such as inflation, unemployment, etc.

If I had to evaluate each year, then, as I mentioned earlier, I would highlight 1991 as the most spectacular and successful year of this period. I have already mentioned some of the foreign policy measures that were taken at that time, but from an economic point of view, that was also when economic development began in Hungary, which continued until 1998. There is also a human side to this, namely that József Antall had been symptom-free since the spring of 1991.

He was very skeptical about the radiation treatment, and when they determined his prognosis and told him he had either three months or three years to live, he was faced with this prospect, and everything depended on how he responded to the treatment. Fortunately, his body responded well, and by the spring of 1991, he was symptom-free and his hair began to grow back, so by the summer of 1991, he had his own hair again. 

Being a vain man, although I don’t think there is anyone on earth who is not vain, he was particularly proud of his hair, so he was very happy and delighted. This was evident in his mood; he had a tremendous work ethic, which rubbed off on his government officials. In addition, by the spring and summer of 1991, the government office had reached a level where I could now say, self-critically, that “yes, we are functioning normally.”

Until then, I have to say that the initial difficulties and amateurism were very much present, even in the functioning of the government office, but then a truly professional operation began, which was largely thanks to the review of the office. In the fall of 1991, József Antall asked the Szekeres Brothers, who were joined by the Korondi brothers, four people in total, two pairs of brothers, to review the government office, looking at its tasks and responsibilities, its organization, and its technical capabilities, and they made some very serious proposals. To mention just one example, and although this may not mean much to outsiders, it was thanks to this that the prime minister got a Chief of Staff, and with the presence of the Chief of Staff, an independent Cabinet Office was formed, and from then on, the political function and responsibilities of the prime minister became much more separated from those of the head of government. By political function, I mean primarily the function of party leader, since the party leader and the prime minister are embodied in one person.

So 1991 is perhaps the golden age. The members of the government were already settling in, and they were learning what public administration, ministerial responsibilities, and government functioning are all about. The functioning of parliament was also becoming relatively smooth.

So I really have to say that if that period could have continued, the Antal government could probably have been even more successful. However, there are also certain negative factors that mar this achievement and this successful year. This is because this year saw the emergence of certain initiatives within the party by István Csurka.

Furthermore, this is when the media war began, with Árpád Göncz refusing to appoint new media chairmen. Furthermore, this was around the time when the Constitutional Court annulled the reparation bill for 56’ political prisoners, and I would like to mention one more story related to the end of 1991, which perhaps sums all this up and shows even more clearly that 1991 was accompanied by serious difficulties, namely the adoption of the 1992 budget law.

This is a small story, but perhaps it is quite typical of the difficulties we faced, and these difficulties were sometimes raised by the President of the Republic himself against the government. I am not saying that the government was not partly to blame, as it was a little late in submitting its draft budget to parliament, but there was plenty of time for the parliamentary committees to discuss it and for the 1992 budget to be adopted around December 20.

However, the opposition chose a tactic that could easily be called obstructionism, trying to delay the final vote. To mention just one example, Fidesz submitted hundreds of amendments, and then further amendments to the amendments, which often amounted to nothing more than moving a decimal point in a row of numbers. This, however, was considered an amendment, and according to the rules of procedure, each amendment had to be discussed by the relevant committee, and all amendments had to be discussed by the budget committee. As a result, the budget committee was forced to spend several days discussing the amendments, which the opposition chairman of the committee, Károly Attila Sós, deliberately gave up at one point, partly in the hope that the committee would not be able to discuss them all, and then they would obviously not be included in the final vote.

As a result, the budget committee literally spent 54 hours discussing the amendments continuously, without sleep or breaks, working non-stop. These 54 hours were led by Pali Becker, the vice-chair of the committee. After a while, the opposition representatives left to prevent the committee from reaching a decision.

This did not succeed because, as I said, the committee members sat through the entire 54 hours without sleep and voted throughout. But that was not the end of the story, because these amendments then had to be voted on in the plenary session, which meant that the vote in parliament lasted three days in total. And it was calculated that if the vote took place on the 30th of December, the night before New Year’s Eve, the parliament would vote through the night, and then the final vote could take place at around 2 p.m. on the 31st. Why was this significant? For two reasons.

The first is that life would not have suddenly stopped in absence of a budget law, as there was a rule, which is still in force today, that if a country, or at least Hungary, does not have an approved budget, the key figures from the previous year’s budget remain in force and the country can continue to function.

However, József Antall said, and it was my opinion as well, that this would severely damage the country’s international prestige, as it would mean that the government did not have a majority in parliament, and that this government had essentially failed politically, as it was unable to even pass a budget, etc. etc., and of course it would have significantly damaged the country’s international economic reputation. The other aspect of the story, however, is that the SZDSZ held several press conferences, referring to a constitutional court decision. As a lawyer, I must say that they were absolutely right, the essence of which was that a law that appears in the Hungarian Gazette AFTER it has entered into force, is unconstitutional.

In a way, this is completely logical and understandable. In practice, a country’s budget must come into force on January 1. Now, if it is published in the Hungarian Gazette on, let’s say, January 6, then it is unconstitutional.

I have to say that this used to happen quite often in the past. But back then, there was no constitutional court, and no one paid much attention to it. This year, however, the issue was very much in the spotlight.

So the bottom line is that we planned to have at least the final draft ready by 2 p.m. for the vote. Yes, but then we still had to print out hundreds of pages of text. It had to be signed by the Speaker of the National Assembly and the President of the Republic.

And it had to be taken to Lajosmizse, because that’s where the Hungarian Gazette was printed. So we calculated that we had a maximum of twelve hours to get this done. That is why I spoke to the secretariat of Uncle Gyuri Szabad, that is, the secretariat of the Speaker of the House, as well as the secretariat of the President of the Republic, to ask the two dignitaries to wait for the final vote.

And as soon as the text is printed, the standard text, I will rush over to them first to get it signed so that it can be sent to the press as soon as possible. And so that the signed copy could be printed as soon as possible, we placed a large computer from the Ministry of Finance in one of the rooms of the parliament with a suitable printer, and indeed, as soon as a vote was taken on an amendment, the financial experts there immediately added the amendment to the text of the regulation, and it was corrected in nearly real-time. And indeed, when the final button was pressed, the printer started and hundreds of pages were printed.

I rushed to Uncle Gyuri Szabad, who signed it, but in the meantime I received the information that, unfortunately, Árpád Göncz could not wait any longer, because, I repeat, it had been agreed that he would wait for the signature. Yet, he couldn’t wait, and decided to go to Sződliget, where there was a guest house for writers, where he liked to spend New Year’s Eve, and he asked us to fax it to him once we had the signature from the Speaker of the House. He would then look at it and send it back.

Now at that time, you had to fax it page by page, and it could take hours for hundreds of pages. That is why, when I informed József Antall about this, that unfortunately the President of the Republic had not kept his promise but had left, and so it looked unlikely that we would be able to appear on the streets and in public by midnight with the printed Hungarian Gazette, he said not to worry, to talk to Antal Annus.

Antal Annus was the administrative state secretary of the Ministry of Defense, a general, a soldier. He was also the head of the government’s authorized delegation for negotiations on the withdrawal of Soviet troops. He was an incredibly capable, truly decisive military man.

The PM said: “Talk to him and ask him to send you a helicopter. Remove the parked cars from Gate 17. Have the helicopter take you and the papers down to Sződliget, sign it with the President, come back, and let’s try to meet the deadline.”

Well, while I’ve started organizing this, I feel compelled to mention a name. Károly Szunyogh, who was the head of the Office of the President of the Republic. He also felt that this story was not entirely clear on their part, since, I repeat, it had been agreed in advance that they would wait with the signing.

He called me and said, “Jóska, photocopy the first page with the title of the bill and the last page with the Speaker’s signature, and then I’ll get the old man to sign it.” That is indeed what happened, and Árpád Göncz signed it at last, they faxed it back, and then the car could drive off to Lajosmizse with the signed papers. But by then we only had a few hours left, and I have every admiration for the printing workers who essentially spent their New Year’s Eve evening working to get this particular Hungarian Gazette paper ready.

Fifteen minutes before midnight, I received a call at home informing me that the car with the printed copies had arrived. I arranged for them to be delivered to the homes of all the faction leaders as New Year’s Eve gifts, and we began distributing the publication among the revelers celebrating New Year’s Eve in Blaha Lujza Square, who did not understand what it was for, but photos were taken, etc., to prove that we were indeed able to meet the December 31 publication deadline, we were able to fulfill our constitutional obligation and ensure that the Hungarian Gazette was available on the streets before it came into effect.

I only mentioned this because during our conversation I’ve talked about the relationship between the prime minister and the president of the republic before, and this was also an event that made their friendly relationship, to put it mildly, a little more difficult than it had been before, and that is why I really have to mention this story on the final note, because it is related to this relationship. It is important to know that József Antall was really fond of awards, partly due to family tradition, there were various state awards in their family trophy cabinet, not only Hungarian ones, but also foreign ones, as he came from a family of politicians, and his father had received significant state recognition from foreign countries for saving Jews and Polish prisoners of war. There is even a memorial plaque in Yad Vashem in his honor. Antall told me during one of our nighttime conversations that from an early age, it was his job to arrange the decorations when foreign guests arrived.

If a French guest arrived, the French decorations had to be placed in the foreground, and if the guest was from another country, the decorations of that country always had to be placed in the appropriate order. Returning to the story, at the last cabinet meeting before his death in December, Péter Boross arrived at the meeting on Thursday, and the prime minister died on Sunday, he came in saying that he had received very bad news from the doctors, that death was likely to occur over the weekend, but that we should make one last gesture, a gesture of recognition towards the prime minister, and he suggested that the government make a proposal for the highest state award. I immediately drafted the proposal and called the secretary of the President of the Republic so that it could be signed as soon as possible and published in the official gazette, as this was a prerequisite for the award to be presented.

Árpád Göncz, who was just leaving for one of his programs, agreed to meet in the hallway of the parliament building. We ran into each other there, and I presented the government’s request that the Prime Minister be awarded the highest state honor during his lifetime. To my great shock, the President of the Republic said that he would not sign it.

I mentioned that I usually addressed the president as “Mr. President,” regardless of the fact that he had asked me at our very first meeting in the summer of 1990 not to call him “Mr. President,” but rather “Uncle Árpi.” I regularly addressed him as Mr. President, even though we were forced to meet quite often to discuss various topics that were not always friendly, and here I am referring mainly to media issues. This was the only time when I, sincerely, lost my self-control and called him Uncle Árpi.

In my embarrassment, I couldn’t think of anything else to say, except to ask him, “Uncle Árpi, please tell me, what is your reason for not wanting to sign?” To which he replied that he would not sign it for a living person. Well, I was forced to respond by saying, “I’m sorry, but I would like to remind you who was the first living person to receive this highest Hungarian state honor.” He said he didn’t know.

I said, “It was you.” And then he remembered that it was indeed true, because it is a protocol, a customary law, that when the highest state award is established, it is officially awarded to the President of the Republic. So he was the first living person to receive it.

Well, that was the moment when, blushing, he finally signed the proposal for the award. It went to the public register, was announced, and on Saturday, he personally presented the award to József Antall, on his deathbed. This, let’s say, is part of the relationship that existed between the two of them.

That’s about all I wanted to say about the changing of regime. I’ll say it again: I believe that this government has indeed completed, and it has done so with good results. Thank you very much for your attention.