Interview with József Kajdi – Episode 7

So, having drafted this resolution, we submitted it as a proposal to Balázs Horváth, who was Minister of the Interior at the time. In accordance with public law, he was acting as deputy prime minister at the time, as József Antall was undergoing surgery, and was under general anesthesia during the taxi blockade. So he only learned what happened in the country the day after, on Friday, when he regained consciousness. 

But in terms of public law, Balázs Horváth held the position and duties of prime minister. Balázs accepted the proposal and signed it, but it was not implemented because Sándor Barna, the Budapest police chief, informed the president, who issued a command as commander-in-chief prohibiting the army from making these vehicles available to the police. At this point, József called me from the hospital and asked me to inform the president of the republic, that from a constitutional point of view, he had exceeded his authority, and indeed he had, and it is important to know that the constitution does not grant the president of the republic the authority of commander-in-chief except in times of war, so in times of peace he cannot act as commander-in-chief, and this is a time of peace, no matter how tense the situation may be.

I informed the president of this by telephone, thus scoring another point where I made him feel insulted, since he, naturally, took offense, but facts are facts. In addition, we later submitted a petition to the Constitutional Court, which confirmed that the president of the republic exceeded his authority.

For this reason, the MDF faction wanted to initiate a motion of no confidence against the president, but József Antall firmly stopped this. Not because of Árpád Göncz himself, but specifically because of the institution of the president of the republic, he did not allow this action and asked that the president of the republic shall not be attacked, no matter how much he opposes the government. This becomes apparent later, when the MDF faction was outraged because of Árpád Göncz’s certain unconstitutional actions, the Constitutional Court ruled about five times, later, that Árpád Göncz had exceeded his constitutional powers, so he basically broke the constitution, and even then, he (Antall) didn’t allow it and didn’t support a no confidence motion.

But since we have already mentioned that, unfortunately, during the taxi blockade, József Antall was undergoing surgery, it must be said that this is, in a way, a Hungarian tragedy, that after 43 years, the first freely elected prime minister was forced to face a fatal illness. What’s more, he noticed this on the night of the election, April 8, but did not take it seriously. He felt a lump in his armpit, but thought it was a lymph node and did not take it seriously. Later, it started to hurt so much that he had it examined in the summer, when it was determined that it was serious and must be operated on.

Although the specific cause and diagnosis cannot be determined at that time, he responded, as is stated factually in the film Blokád that the local elections must take place, and he wants to complete his trip to the US because it is a huge recognition for the country, and only then will he undergo surgery. However, the surgery reveals that he has Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, a type of cancer that unfortunately also appeared in his mother. There is a milder and a more severe form of this disease, and unfortunately, he has the more severe form, which means that he has either three months to live or three years.

Three years is the best-case scenario. Three years if he tolerates the chemotherapy relatively well, but if he does not undergo treatment, he will pass away in three months, which is a tragedy in that he obviously could not prepare for the position of prime minister. But he had been consciously preparing for a career in politics since childhood.

He didn’t know that fate would grant him this, but in the end it did. When you think about it, in the 1960s and 1970s, no one thought that there could really be a change of regime, and he was already consciously preparing for a career in politics, a completely different career in politics from those who imagined their future and destiny in the party state. So in a way, it was a tragedy of fate.

Another question is that he approached the whole issue as a service. He often told ministers that the title and definition of ‘minister’ itself means service. That is why he always raised his voice when someone tried to act all high and mighty in Parliament, and use personal power to get his way.

This was also evident in terms of salary, and I will give just one specific example of this. The salaries of the administrative apparatus, at least at the management level, i.e. state secretaries, deputy state secretaries and assistant state secretaries, were linked to the salaries of ministers, as a percentage. As a result, there was a period when I was 154th on the salary list of the Prime Minister’s Office, in descending order.

This means that, as the head of the office, 154 of my own subordinates earned more than me, which was not a pleasant situation. I tried several times to initiate a change, saying, “OK, you see this as a service, you signed up for four years, but we see a career in public administration as a vocation, a lifetime job, so please let us ask for more,” but we were bound by law and there was not really any room for maneuver. Returning to the illness, the operation was successful, he responded well to treatment, and thanks to this, by the spring of 1991, he was symptom-free.

It is true that he lost his hair as a result of the chemotherapy and was given a terrible wig. His wife’s hairdresser made his first wig. The second one was better, he needed it because unfortunately his illness returned, but let’s stick with the fact that in the spring of 1991 he was symptom-free.

I think this is the most dynamic period of Antall’s government, he threw himself into his work with incredible energy, he was very cheerful, and this was also reflected in the functioning of the government. What’s more, by that time, I have to say that our work also became streamlined, running like clockwork. So while in my first newspaper interview, which Ágnes Márványi did for Magyar Hírlap, I was forced to say, when she asked me how I felt, that I felt like a drowning man who can’t swim but is pushed into the middle of the lake and told to swim.

That’s how I felt back then. In the spring of 1991, however, when decision-making bodies such as the Meeting of State Secretaries for Public Administration were being set up, no proposals were submitted to the government that we couldn’t get our teeth into. We rejected a lot of proposals because they hadn’t been properly coordinated, and we didn’t allow proposals to be pulled out of pockets. So I have to say that the government began to function normally. However, this lasted until the end of 1991, when, unfortunately, the disease returned and treatment began again.

The public was not really aware of this, but we were, of course. At least in terms of how things work, it was not noticeable in the functioning of the prime minister’s office. Those of us in his immediate circle knew that his sarcastic humor was more rarely apparent, that he was in a less than good mood, because he felt that the service to which he has essentially devoted his life was coming to an end, and that he may have to leave sooner than he had planned.

He was determined to bring about regime changing and see it through to the end. This included implementing even the most difficult and unpopular decisions. What were these? I mentioned at the beginning that the economic transition would be left to Antall’s government.

The socialist system was collapsing, the Soviet Union was collapsing, and we weren’t able to sell our goods to Western Europe, which were unsellable, even in the form of barter trade with the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union paid us for a very long time in transferable rubles, which were essentially worthless. We tried to switch to dollar settlements, but the Soviet Union did not have any dollars either.

What’s more, with the Soviet Union falling apart, a huge market was essentially disappearing, and it is now common knowledge that full employment in Hungary was achieved by keeping unemployment within the factory gates. Many of you may remember that there was a criminal offense called” public endangerment by avoiding work”. This meant that anyone who did not have a registered place of employment was punishable by law.

That is why everyone was employed, even if it meant that a worker, and this is a true story, not fiction, assembled a part for a machine, and the worker next to him dismantled it. Then they started all over again. So if necessary, people were employed in this way, and what’s more, I repeat, it was for the production of goods that were unsellable, so there was unemployment within the factory gates, within the plants, although not officially, of course.

This then spread beyond the factory gates, and these factories eventually collapsed. Privatization began, and what’s more, thanks to Tamás Sárközy, spontaneous privatization had already begun before our time. The party nomenclature sensed the great opportunity and actively participated in it, and large fortunes were acquired in an uncontrolled, if not illegal, manner, because, I repeat, this was spontaneous privatization, so there were no legal regulations, and large fortunes were acquired. So, wild capitalism began in Hungary in 1988.

We are trying to regulate this, starting with emergency laws, a new single-bank law, a banking law, etc., which unfortunately contributed even more to the country’s transition to a market economy, a normal capitalist market economy, in such a destructive way that factories had to be closed down, unprofitable factories had to be liquidated, and there was a huge decline in living standards, huge inflation, and the frustration and disillusionment associated with the change of regime, including the taxi blockade and all the discontent, which, I would say, was partly due to the naivety that the change of regime would bring about a rapid improvement in the standard of living, were completely understandable. József Antall’s illness, which I will repeat once again, although many people were trying to explain it in retrospect, that it had a negative impact on the functioning of the government. However, as someone who was a personal witness to its day-to-day operations, including the functioning of the government, I did not see or feel this.

It is another matter that, unfortunately, by the summer of 1993, his illness had reached a stage where a final operation had to be performed, which meant a bone marrow transplant. Professor Dill, a German professor, performed the operation, by which time he had already performed about 60 such operations. The vast majority of patients survived, but it was impossible to know, as it is a very risky operation, since it involves removing bone marrow from a person, a cell, and then trying to develop and multiply it, and when it multiplies, it is put back into the person, but first the immune system has to be completely destroyed.

To this end, József Antall had to travel to Germany on October 6, 1993, where the operation was to be performed. On October 5, he wrote a letter with the words “to be opened in case of my death” on the envelope, and he said goodbye to his closest staff in the presence of Interior Minister Péter Boross, essentially entrusting us to Péter Boros, saying that he was not sure he would come home alive, but that he gave himself a 50% chance of making it, and he went in for the operation.

The surgery was very successful, although he was kept in a completely sterile room for several weeks. His white blood cell count started to rise, and his body responded so well that he was allowed to return to Hungary in early November, a little earlier than expected, as his doctors told him. He was allowed to go home on the condition that he does not go out in public for two weeks,  and continues to stay in a relatively sterile environment so that he does not catch any infections. Despite this, he returned home on November 5, if I remember correctly, and by the 8th he was already back in his office. On the 11th, he chaired the cabinet meeting and went to the parliamentary session, where he was given a warm welcome, even by the opposition, who stood up and applauded him. And everyone, even his fiercest opponents, felt that, thanks to some twist of fate, this government would get through this difficult initial period.

Some were happy that the current government would remain in power, while others were happy that this government will complete the most difficult part of the regime changing, and although everyone knew that a new government will probably be formed, this difficult task will not fall to them. So the current government is, how shall I put it, cleaning up all the filth for the future government, which is why they were hoping that József Antal would recover and be able to see out his term in office. Yes, and he still chaired the government meeting on November 18, even though he was not feeling well.

On Monday the 22nd, he didn’t go to Parliament, his workplace, instead he called in to say he had a fever, and was taken to the hospital, and after that he never left the hospital. In the hospital, he first developed pneumonia, then leukemia, and on December 12, his body gave up the fight against the deadly disease. It was a Sunday afternoon, 5:15.

Many children who were watching cartoons on TV at the time remember the moment when the screen suddenly went black and Péter Boross announced that József Antall, the Prime Minister of Hungary, had died at 17:15. My task at that time was to convene an emergency cabinet meeting for that same evening. Of course, since the preliminary news was very bad and we were prepared for the likelihood of death, Péter Boros assigned tasks in advance.

The chief of staff was tasked with writing the obituary. Some people were already preparing for the funeral, and I had to prepare the agenda for the emergency cabinet meeting. I must admit that this was the most difficult task of my life, as I had to imagine that one of the greatest Hungarian politicians of the second half of the 20th century, whom I held in the highest esteem, had died, and I had to write the agenda in such a way that it would be acceptable to the government, regarding what the consequences of his death would be in regard to constitutional law.

At the government meeting, which began at 7:30 p.m., Árpád Göncz and Gyuri Szabad, as well as the Speaker of the National Assembly, were in attendance. We discussed the public law situation based on my proposal.

They were informed of our plans for the funeral, which was scheduled for next Saturday. And the letter in the envelope, which I mentioned, was read aloud, the one  stating that “It is to be opened in the event of my death.” This is finally heard at the government meeting for the first time.

This is a political will in which József Antall expresses his wish that this government, even if not as the Antall government, should continue the parliamentary cycle, and requests that Péter Boross, his deputy, the Minister of the Interior, be entrusted with the task of forming a government. In essence, he appointed his successor, and this succession does indeed take place, as Boross’ program was presented to parliament on the Monday following the funeral, and, as I recall, he was elected on the 21st of December. The Boros government had only one change in personnel, apart from the prime minister, as the interior minister became prime minister and Imre Kónya replaced him as interior minister.

At Antall’s request, the immediate staff of the Prime Minister’s Office remained unchanged, so Péter Boross took us over, and we continued to serve the Boross government, at the head of the government office, myself, as State Secretary for Public Administration, and I remained in office until July 10, 1994, although the new government, the Horn Government, was formed on the 14th. but I had a conflict with Gyula Horn during a professional consultation, a personal conflict, he made a rather nasty remark about the public administration apparatus, which I took an issue to with not only on my own behalf, since I already knew that I was leaving, but also on behalf of the remaining public administration experts, which led to a personal dispute, and I expressly requested that I do not wish to wait for Gyula Horn to become prime minister and for him to dismiss me or make a recommendation, so I asked Péter Boross, and thus I left on July 10. The Boross government held its last meeting on July 7, after which there were no more meetings.

I would like to add one more thing, and perhaps this should be said in conclusion. I mentioned that when the Antall government took over, although it received certain dossiers from Miklós Németh and information about unfinished business that needed to be decided, but in quite a few ministries, the future minister walked in and no one would welcome him. Balázs Horváth, for example, walked into the Ministry of the Interior and did not even know where the minister’s office was, so literally no one welcomed him, and he had to ask around to find his way to his own office. That is why it is perhaps important to mention how the apparatus awaited the new government in our period, the period of the Antall government.

Unfortunately, the two posters I mentioned, Taváris Konyec (It’s over, comrades) and Tavaszi Nagytakarítás (Spring Cleaning), caused terrible fear in the public administration apparatus. When I became head of the government office, I noticed that everyone kept their ears and eyes shut, they didn’t even say hello, but instead they sneaked around, turning away, everyone rushing down the hallway, so the atmosphere was terrible. And then a new personnel manager, a young guy whom I appointed, told me that the atmosphere in the apparatus is very bad and that we should try to calm everyone down somehow.

I called a staff meeting, which I later outright ordered to the state secretaries for public administration, to follow through, at the request of the Prime Minister. At the staff meeting, I told everyone that no one had anything to fear, not even former party members, because I knew that more than 80 percent of the government office staff had been members of the MSZMP. At the time, there was no other way to get a job there.

So no one had anything to fear if they worked loyally, honestly, and professionally for the government, not for the MDF, not for the smallholders, not for the Christians. Surprisingly, this was such a magic phrase that from that moment on, you would see smiley-faced people all around. At 11 p.m., when I went up to the prime minister because he had called me for something, I found the lights still on in the offices, and when I went in and asked, “Kids, what the hell are you doing here at night?” that was the answer:

“Do you really think we would go home, if the boss is here and there’s work to be done?” So a working atmosphere and spirit developed within my government office that I can’t describe in words, which I found quite uplifting, and it was absolutely fantastic. The prime minister also placed great emphasis on this that summer in Öszöd, Balatonöszöd, where he gave a lecture on public administration and expectations to everyone from the department heads upwards, and he repeated and emphasized exactly the same thing that a public administration professional must loyally serve the government of the day in accordance with their professional knowledge. It doesn’t matter what someone’s political leanings or affinities are, if they work honestly, and diligently, they have nothing to fear.

And I must say that this was indeed the case, at least in public administration. He also explained the selection criteria for public administration, which were not political suitability and loyalty, but professional competence. And he demanded this from every minister and every public administration leader.

And this was indeed the selection criterion at that time. Sometime in late 1993, one or two people from the MDF began to enter the public administration apparatus, but then I have to say that they proved themselves to be extremely capable, for example Zoltán Nagy, who became the state secretary for Public Administration, and he was such a good professional that he went on to be the president of the competition authority for many years. So who could enter the public administration at that time was really based only on professionalism, not political affiliations or political loyalties.

So I have to say that it was a golden era, not just for the government offices and government operations, but also for public administration. A process of administrative reform was launched, and there was also a significant change from an IT perspective, which was partly due to the previous COCOM list. Let me give you just one example: there was a shortage of telephones.

So much so that even ministers did not have a telephone at home, including me. In the first few months, this was also encountered by the Szekeres brothers who were tasked by József Antall with reviewing the office and making recommendations for its improvement. They were shocked to discover how poor the technical equipment supply of the office was.

For example, if the prime minister wanted to speak to me, I would receive a notification on a personal pager, which we called a “beeper,” telling me to call the prime minister back. I would then start looking for two-forint coins at home, go out onto the street, and look for a public phone booth where the phone worked. The third one worked, let’s say. I had to call the prime minister from this public phone booth and tell him the most confidential things, because sometimes there was no time to go in, he had to be informed immediately and I had to answer, we had to discuss it from this public phone booth. Later, it became easier in that we had to keep a bulky device in the car and at home, called an Altai, we could call each other and talk on the line, and after about a year and a half, we managed to get a normal phone in the apartment.

So we didn’t have a computer, of course the secretaries worked on typewriters that had a certain amount of memory and a correction program, but I remember that in 1990 we were still working on machines like this, where you had to use correction tape so you had to correct typos with these white tapes. That was the state of technical equipment in Hungarian public administration at the time. Rapid change and development followed during that period, partly thanks to the review carried out by the aforementioned Szekeres brothers in the government. They made further proposals for improving operations, which really gave things a serious boost, including the appointment of a cabinet chief to facilitate the work of the prime minister.

The position of cabinet chief did not exist in the Hungarian administration until then, this was established in June 1991. To be honest, there is still a lot to say about this period, as many events took place.

Starting with the Russian coup attempt, and how we reacted when Gorbachev was overthrown and Yeltsin was locked up in the Russian parliament, and an attempt was made to overthrow the Russian government with arms. There is also a lot to say about the Bős-Nagymaros water barrage debacle, and many other government events took place, including the media war and its subsequent developments, which I think could be discussed for hours. It was the best and most difficult period of my life, and I am very proud to have been a part of it.